As for Bargain Vs Griselbrand, yes, Bargain is better, but not 'strictly better'.Griselbrand is a creature, a rather meaty creature that is useful whenever … This is when you also decide on buyback, entwine, splice, and the like. Having more than one way to win doesn't suddenly make it not a deck that finishes with Tendrils, and I have definitely cast Griselbrand for full retail with Dark Ritual more times than I care to admit. Think of it like Dredge or Affinity. [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (4 children). [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 30 points31 points32 points 2 years ago (30 children). I'm with /u/whynot2k , I'm not sure you understand what pedantic means. 3 is average. Search for the perfect addition to your deck. Speaking of passing the turn, with Ad Nauseam you've got to pay all the life on the same turn that you resolve the spell. are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 WotC didn’t ban Necropotence because they kept wanting players to run it in midrange decks that ran countermagic, discard, and creatures, thinking it was more fun. Then you win the turn you play it; whereas, you normally have to wait a turn after Necro to win. In The Thran, he is described as being a tall, muscular (due to past rigorous work) human with thick dark blac… overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching. The first FNM I ever played I died to Bargain on turn one of the game. Sacrifice the creature token to Phyrexian Altar to generate another which will be able to activate Reassembling Skeleton's ability to bring it back to play. I'm not so sure that Bargain is actually better than Griselbrand just because you can never recoup the life loss and you can never draw at the beginning of your turn. I'll take the ability to cast mini tendrils and refill, the ability to stop and cantrip or cast discard spells inbetween drawing, and the ability to play Force of Will if I need to over the one mana discount any day. Obviously, you need a third component to win off the infinite mana, but the cheapness of the pieces more than makes up for that tidbit. [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago (16 children). Yawgmoth's Bargain; Yawgmoth's Bargain. Determine how each target will be affected, for spells with multiple targets. Turn 1 or 2 Necro, draw 14, pick the best 7-card hand is more than enough to kill someone even after passing the turn. Bargain I think is a little more dangerous because of how it enables mini-Tendrils for more cards to win (whereas with Necro it's more about sculpting a win with the best 7 cards). my memory from 20 years ago is a bit fuzzy. There's no reason you would even have to maindeck Force, a bargain deck could easily be constructed to bring it in out of the board when you need it. In the other two games my combo is faster though: The third game I manage to win on turn two: T1 Ancient Tomb , Mox Diamond (discarding a land), Altar of Dementia, Cabal … See rule 704. Keep in mind that you can dump all of your permanent-based fast mana ahead of Necro and untap with 7 cards in hand + a ton of mana in play. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. [+][deleted] comment score below threshold-18 points-17 points-16 points 2 years ago (4 children). This isn't just a necropotence that costs twice as much. Repeat ad infinitum. Finance you'd think that that is irrelevant but it is not and yes drawing 1 at a time >> drawing 7 at once. Not if you used reanimate or show and tell to get to that point. You can sac Griselbrand and Reanimate him again or even block with him in a pinch. Your first point is needlessly condescending. Magic Combos Awesome, or infinite Magic the Gathering combos. While you might think that Griselbrand would be just as bad if not worse than Yawgmoth's Bargain, the restriction on drawing 7 cards for 7 life versus 1 card for 1 life is hugely important. Search for the perfect addition to your deck. You are focusing intently on the specific phrasing I used ("storm deck") and whether or not your Tin Fins deck can be counted as a "storm deck". Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Possibly more if you can gain life. Number of cards drawn usually goes deep, but is not as easily controlled. Yes, Bargain doesn't 'lose' to graveyard hate, but there's more than one way to put things into play for free. I'm not necessarily saying that it is overpowered (but maybe tomb -> monolith into T2 twist for 5 is?, but I digress), its about what the card offers the format. [–]compacta_dHigh Tide/Slivers 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago (0 children), burn players are hte ones usually "stopping life gain". Deze kaart staat op de Reserved List. What is a storm deck if it's not a deck that wins with a storm card? Enjoy! I asked how the deck I'm playing is not a "storm deck" when it fits the definition. Karakas and STP usually mean you commit harder. i take it you have never used bargain in a constructed format? I know griselbrand can seem unfair sometimes but i urge you to understand where the difference is. This is not sarcasm. … De vent waar ik naar keek had een T3 Bargain dmv. Paper Event Pay a mana and a life, trigger the demon, draw a card, get a black mana. i get real salty when i see all the 'ban probe' and 'ban brainstorm' nonsense. It is uncanny how much it is like the Felidar Guardian combo. . is this: There is at least one deck that can be built with Yawgmoth's Bargain that would be far more broken than ANT, TES, or anything that cheats Griselbrand into play. MagnusMagicus. [+]lorkacMaverick comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points 2 years ago (15 children). I didn't realize it was still going on. and join one of thousands of communities. Heck, without Necro around you’ll even get to discard back into your graveyard for Past in Flames if you activate several times in response. So it is a oo, 5, 8,3: Date Posted: Wed Jun/01/16 at 7:05pm: gericault5: Posts: 2788 Joined: 13-Oct-09: Repercussion, natural affinty, blasphamas act, alter of dementia Any number of oppenents, 9 mana, 4 cards, 1 phase : Date Posted: Thu Jun/02/16 at 2:21am: knarf_the_dwarf: … Bought High Tide with Frantic Searches online, did some playtesting. [–]108Echoes 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children). Hmm, perhaps I didn't make my point well enough. I have never, ever lost a game in Vintage when I have resolved a Bargain. [+][deleted] comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points 2 years ago (10 children). How much permanent fast mana is also in your hand? [–]realmslayerCephalid Breakfast/monoblue painter 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (4 children). Necro would definitely be interesting. Getting him on the field usually means a win right there. [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago (11 children). Legacy Articles - Magic Theory, Legacy Info, Card Theory, event advertisements for local-level events, link posts to photos or screenshots of cards. Just For Fun Yawgmoth's Bargain fits way better in Storm shells than Ad Nauseum does. Brewing last edited by . Griselbrand. Working backward this time. Places to Play It used Yawgmoth's Bargain to draw through the deck looking for copies of Soul Feast and used the life gain to keep drawing until they found their Yawgmoth's Will and then would just cast the Soul Feast 's from the yard until their opponent died. it's fun. Relevant. Frantic Search Urza's Legacy (C) Instant $0.99 . Especially since we have a 1 mana planeswalker dominating the format, and toooons of new graveyard hate has been printed since survival was a thing. The topic of the thread is not Necropotence. [–]zachinflamesI like Dark Ritual 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children). The alternative win condition is infect kill with Ichor Rats and Yawgmoth, Thran Physician's proliferate ability. Pay 1 life: Draw a card. [–]Conical 17 points18 points19 points 2 years ago (7 children), Bargain doesn't get hit with swords to plowshares or karakas and doesn't care if you are at 7 life, [–]Conical 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago (1 child). imho the cards that i feel that could be unrestricted are flash, yawgmoths bargain, and memory jar, flash would open up a whole new deck, bargain isnt good in multiples so all that happens is you get it more often, and memory jar isnt played as much as it once was as far as i can tell and at worst you get to have a 4 of 5 mana draw seven, only thing that would worry me about jar is welder. [–]ThreeSpaceMonkeyThat Thalia Girl 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (5 children), [–]lorkacMaverick -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago (4 children), Turn 1 griselbrand already draws 14 cards + FoW on turns 1-3, Ad Naus draws 10-15 cards turns 1-3 for 5 mana instead of 6. This is easily done on turn 1 as I've demonstrated multiple times now. Bargain places less requirements on the rest of your deck since it can be Ritualed out relatively easily and you'd play Rituals in a Storm deck anyway. The point is more that Necro simultaneously plays the role of explosive bomb and slow grind engine. [–]AngronOfTheTwelfth 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (3 children), [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (0 children). [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (6 children). use the following search parameters to narrow your results: A subreddit dedicated to the greatest Magic: the Gathering format: Legacy (Type 1.5). See cards from the most recent sets and discover what players just like you are saying about them. Prijzen zijn natuurlijk niet in te schatten. Are you making your declarations about Ad Nauseam vs Bargain with the full experience of comboing off with both of them? You can wait until opponent's end step. Ok so you are just going to ignore all his other points telling you why it’s so ridiculously broken. Just to spell out the combo for anyone who doesn't get it: Turn 1: Swamp -> Dark Ritual-> Dark Ritual -> Dark Ritual -> Tendrils of Agony-> Yawgmoth's will-> Dark Ritual -> Dark Ritual -> Dark Ritual -> Tendrils I think you win the game 46 to 0. Best zoo version i have played. Imho anyway. This is usually an attrition-based win condition as it is mana and card extensive. Is a completely different ballpark. As a result you're completely missing my actual point, which has nothing to do with what you call a deck, or whether or not you could cheat in Bargain with Show and Tell. However, you can do: … Date Reviewed: April 11, 2018. Sure, but they never have more than 7 cards, and you will always get a turn to do something like Thoughtseize them. Het zou wel een erg populaire kaart worden. If you resolve a Necro, discard doesn't really do much against you. Eventually realized I just didn't have the time to do a good job of it with work and all my other responsibilities and I didn't want to halfass it. It might not let you choose how much you draw, but it's still Necro on a stick. Once you've made a Bargain there's no going back. DMCA requests | Can I ask you a question that has already been declared condescending elsewhere in this thread, but is not intended to be in this instance? Yawgmoth's Bargain + Horizon Chimera. It's pay 1 life to draw 1 card (no mana required), and you can do that as many times in a turn … New Players [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). I hope you're not blaming that on me because I merely asked how casting many spells into Tendrils was not a storm deck. If this doesn't kill everyone, all I need to do is to play Dark Ritual (play any 0 cmc mana rocks first to pay for ritual) and activate Yawgmoth to discard Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre when I have my entire library in hand which will shuffle only Dark Ritual back in my library and allow me to repeat the ritual-ulamog loop infinite times to finish off the table. [–]Sebben997 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children), Necropotence and Bargain are both way to strong for Legacy like both of them are some of the strongest Cards ever and for good reason. News Can we play Anger or something? I just don't think Mind Twist is a card that will spawn new archetypes (as the card is not an engine like Survival of the Fittest), or will be a net positive for the format ("unfun", easily splashable, etc). [–]MTGCardFetcher 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children), Reanimate - (G) (SF) (MC) Tin Fins Reanimator (Dave Kapłan) vs Infect (Gothmog) on 90sMTG. ), TES Infernal Tutoring #46 featuring Julian Carr (Pastrytime) | The EPIC Storm. I did play Anger for a while but I switched to Wonder and Brawn because I felt evasion was more important than haste. I could see Griselbrand getting axed and Bargain becoming legal, but there's no way you could have both of those running around. This is easily done on turn 1 as I've demonstrated multiple times now. [–]iklalzBlack Red Jank 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children), Bargain lets you draw 15, Tendrils for 10, draw another 10 and Tendrils for lethal. And I’m sure you can force a deck to come together that specifically would be bad using Card (A) so you can use that deck to argue that Card (B) is valid within that one specific case study. This site is unaffiliated. Yawgmoths Vile Offering Yawgmoth’s Vile Offering – Dominaria. It did use discarding cards to a … Naya Zoo mtg Legacy. I don't know why, but at the time combo players had this weird fascination with naming combo decks after breakfast cereals (Fruity Pebbles, Cocoa Pebbles, Trix, etc. In a vaccuum I think this is possibly the worst, but the decks it's in are built around it so you end up drawing more cards on average than not, but the random nature of it balances it I think. Oracle Text. Beautiful Infect deck. Low Knight of the Reliquary: $3.03: $1.06: Store … if i had a collection on mtgo rather than in paper i'd probably take a swing at going back and looking at what calebd did with his article a few years back, playtest things like mind twist and survival and see if they are broken and would ruin the format or if they would be fine. No, it's not. [–]eviscerationsInfect / Tin Fins / Pox 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (2 children). I don't care whether it's possible to Show and Tell Bargain. If you want to see what can be done with Necro, look not at ANT but at TES. You could draw a big pile of cards, but you can't use them that turn yet, you won't know what you're getting (so you can't stop drawing the moment when you got what you needed), then you'll discard down to 7 and the next turn your opponent has the opportunity to try to shred your hand. Opinions? i'm probably blinded by nostalgia. Gatherer is the Magic Card Database. Won't that be fun for everyone? but i appreciate your response. Ratings: Constructed: 3.93 Casual: 4.17 Limited: 3.75 Multiplayer: 4.00 Commander [EDH]: 4.08. Yes your opponent will make you discard something, but you get to choose. This is an aristocrat/tokens Yawgmoth, Thran Physicianbuild that aims to abuse undying creatures to gain an insurmountable advantage over the course of the game by recreating a Yawgmoth's Bargaineffect. i hate deathrite shaman, it's miserable to play against, but i've maintained the stance that i don't want it to be banned because it will hit so many other decks besides grixis delver that the feelbads would be very real for the maverick, jund and deathblade guys. Privacy statement | Attention! If you Flash -> Omniscience, your combo is actually a 3 card combo as now you have to have an outlet card. [–]todeshorstgive me frantic search or give me death 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago (5 children). If the most it does is make storm decks change 1-2 cards but lay exactly the same, then it kind of doesn't make sense to unban; versus say unbanning Mana Drain which would produce a brand new deck due to the "Counter a spell, ramp up next turn" quality of the card. 1 is bad. This play pattern goes as follows: Sacrifice Wolf to target one of their creatures. … [+][deleted] comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points 2 years ago (17 children), Griselbrand is unplayable in the archetype. Vergelijkbare kaarten > Bekijk kaarten vergelijkbaar met Yawgmoth's Bargain. If you think about how you normally beat storm, you run them out of stuff and they have to find more. 0; B. babau Reply Quote. Browse through cards from Magic's entire history. [–]Washableaxe 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (1 child). You can also go deep to ensure they cannot get all your business spells. You also refer to Force of Will as "protecting the combo", but when I look at the opportunity to play Bargain in legacy the reason I get excited about Force of Will is for the combo mirror, where I'm not bringing a knife to a gunfight against Reanimator. The reason bargain is banned is because it would be too good in a deck that has a storm kill and does not have to use reanimation or show and tell to get there. SCDWhy is Yawgmoth's Bargain banned? Bargain is a one card combo. 6 Mana for 6 cards can easily win a game in a critical mass combo deck... [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 13 points14 points15 points 2 years ago (0 children). (Audio Quality improves after the first matches. Browse through cards from Magic's entire history. (self.MTGLegacy). i played nightmare survival when it was type 2 legal, and it was possibly my favorite deck next to ice age necro. So if Brainstorms too strong for Legacy there is no logical way to justify having Bargain or Necro in the format, [–]zachinflamesI like Dark Ritual -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago* (0 children). Bargain being castable off of rituals makes it vastly superior to Griselbrand in every way. Love the deck concept. Because it requires commitment you can whiff though. This will let me draw my entire library without losing any life while draining my opponents' life with Blood Artist. But saying all that--the only thing that makes me certain they won't unban Bargain is not because of power level but because of outcome; ie, what new decks become viable that will change up the format and make people buy more magic cards. But let me tell you, facing turn 2-3 Bargain in standard when you had no Force of Will, no Thoughtseize, and no Thalia was an uphill climb for a kid. I've definitely sat across the table from it though. Necro isn't a business spell so much as it is a one card engine. 99.99%+ of magic players have never cast Bargain because it's been not allowed in any format (yes, you could play one copy in vintage) until it was recently unrestricted in vintage. With rituals and other fast mana it is very easy to cast. USUALLY. And being that players already run Flusterstorms in ANT I don't really see what's the huge advantage of running Force instead of Discard + Flusters--but that's a different discussion that is much more interesting. Combo 1. It's purely subjective, of course. Wow. It's still a powerful play, but I'm sure there's better ways to abuse Necro. Mid. Decks met … Holy shit man, there's just no comparison. Podcast. Yawgmoths Bargain: 1: $0.69: Alter Ego Comics: 1: $0.73: superkards: 1: $0.74: Half Dragon Games: 1: $0.74: Lenlock Hobbies: 1: $0.75: Boar's Hat Gaming: 2: $0.76 : Planeswalkers. bargain is better than necro arguably if both are on the table. In the past 6 months or so I've picked up Vintage and lately I've been playing a decent amount of storm with Bargain. While he may occasionally see play in decks that use Tendrils of Agony for the finish, those decks always use a method other than rituals to "cheat" him into play. I'm just trying to deal with all of your corner cases and complaints. Do note that placing the -1/-1 counter is a MAY ability. The following are synergies that works really well in the deck and can put me ahead if undisrupted: The main win condition is to create an infinite sacrifice loop with a drain effect like Blood Artist to win with Yawgmoth, Thran Physician's sacrifice/draw ability with either of the following combination: How this works is essentially putting the -1/-1 counters on the creature that has a +1/+1 counter on it while sacrificing the other alternatively. I can currently tutor up "Bargain" and "cast it" for a combined cost of 2-3 mana depending on which spells I use, attack with it (but wait it's not a creature! Yes bargain is "harder to get on the field" but see how fast it would happen on turn 1 if it was legal. Follow us on Twitter @mtgcombo. 0; … Reviews Below: David Fanany Player since 1995. Ad Nauseum. The one mana discount also isn't as important to me because the beauty of Bargain is that you don't have to do it all at once, so if you start going off, don't get there, you can set up an opportunity to pass the turn and survive, while Ad Nauseam makes that much more difficult. The following are cards I'm considering... 121.2. Article 3 consecutive DRs leave you with 7 mana, not enough to cast Tendrils, YawgWin, AND another DR. Blood Artist effects are what sustain the card advantage engine and prevent me from killing myself. i've said this before, and i will say it again: if turn 1 reveal chancellor into swamp dark rit unmask you entomb reanimate sire of insanity is cool, then why isn't turn 1 swamp dark rit x2 mind twist you for 4? abrupt decay and sorcerous spyglass etc etc etc. Casual I don't care whether you think Tin Fins is a storm deck or not. Yawgmoth's Bargain. How am I wrong telling him that we're not talking about Necro? What is the ultimate goal of unbanning mind twist? Ritual into Necro getting Revoked is the worst of these, since you’ll lose your draw step, but again you’ve already drawn and sculpted your hand, and you can repeat this in response to the Revoker. Bargain blows Ad Nauseam out of the water. From, in my opinion, worst-best. I wouldn't say that Ad Nasueam always draws fewer cards. [–]DaGarver 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children). Magic; MTG; combo; Yawgmoth's; Bargain; Yawgmoth's Bargain; Horizon; Chimera; Horizon Chimera; Sep 25th, 2013; 10 notes; Open in app; Facebook; Tweet; Mail; time-and-time-again … The destination is different but the road is the same. Win turn 3 with disruption, [–]notaprisoner 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (6 children). This card depicts a heart-breaking moment from the tie-in novel for the Apocalypse expansion. What do you do then? Reanimator, Storm, and Tin Fins are all kinda similar at that point. [–]eviscerationsInfect / Tin Fins / Pox 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (11 children). Griselbrand is definitely more forgiving. He then goes on a pedantic rant calling me pedantic to prove a point that's not even in the discussion of the thread. The restrictions are more meaningful than Bargain the way Legacy is currently constructed. we come to play busted cards and do stupid shit with them. Help | if i mind twist you for 4 on turn 1, we're at card parity. Primer Griselbrand is not a better Bargain. My secondary win condition involves Phyrexian Altar + token maker like Pawn of Ulamog + Reassembling Skeleton/Nether Traitor which will produce an infinite sacrifice loop to win with a Blood Artist effect. [–]jeffderekANT|TeamAmerica|Grixis|Other UB Decks 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (3 children). Enchantments are harder to remove as well. Even if it only reaffirmed his positions that's still a useful data point. Can you beat a Thoughtseize with your 7 passing back? [–]lorkacMaverick 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children). The combo feels very reminiscent to the Saheeli Rai and Felidar Guardian infinite combination from Standard, and that ended in an emergency ban! Have you ever played Bargain in constructed? In TES, I can probably draw 2-5 more cards than with Bargin. Ad Nauseam draws fewer cards, and you can't play Ad Nauseam and Force of Will in the same deck. You wouldn't want to play with necropotence in the format. This is an aristocrat/tokens Yawgmoth, Thran Physician build that aims to abuse undying creatures to gain an insurmountable advantage over the course of the game by recreating a Yawgmoth's Bargain effect. In a funky way this is like the old Bargain deck. Artiest: Michael Sutfin: Reserved list: Ja . Copied to clipboard. Like the other commenter said, Bargain is much stronger than Necro once it's on play. Magic the Gathering, FNM is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. One undying creature + one token producer like. Cast Diabolic Intent and sacrifice Academy Rector -> search for Yawgmoths Bargain and put Omniscience into play through Academy Rector and then play Bargain for free. Gatherer is the Magic Card Database. I've had the same arguments people have made against me when I started running Dark Depths in Maverick where they keep asking if the combo is worth it. How many more rituals? B. Also consider how absurdly low quality Omniscience is outside of comboing, and how having it in your hand makes your combo brick out completely. Next turn drop the fast mana and necro again for business. 602.2. In my own limited, anecdotal experience of course. Gatherer is the Magic Card Database. So now you’re running multiple tendrils just to allow your more expensive card to... What would your list look like for legacy, exactly? i think surgical and rest in peace are more often the gy hate of choice, and would put leyline on par with spellbomb in terms of commonality. I think the lack of draw-7s and moxen in Legacy makes it safer than it would be in Vintage. Yawgmoths Bargain + Skirge Familiar + Confessor (+ Legacy Weapon, Darksteel Colossus, or Serra Avatar to not run out of cards) Blue/White Isochron Scepter(Roar of the Kha) + March of the Machines + an artifact you can tap for at least three mana (Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, etc.) 5 jaren geleden. Discussion See cards from the most recent sets and discover what players just like you are saying about them. Because it would be too good in storm. Speaking as a player who plays Thalia, people eot Ad Nauseum against me all the time in order to be able to untap and use their lands to cast their LED's and Rituals. You're thinking too heavily on Storm winning via Past in Flames. :), [–]notaprisoner 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children). BBB is cheap, but it required commitment similar to griselbrand because you don't get to see the cards you draw.
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